SC-8850 information

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jaffa225man
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Re: SC-8850 information

Post by jaffa225man » Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:49 pm

andrew603 wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:07 am
Sorry about that. Typo'd the link: https://www.midimusicadventures.com/SLib8850.7z

Stupid Case-SeNsITivity...
:) That happens. Thanks, I'm downloading it now!

andrew603 wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:41 am
Another quick reply, as I'm at work...

The RWI MT-32 does sound a bit different in some games. I can't remember any specific ones I could list at the moment though. I do remember that it never worked at all with Willy Beamish for some reason...

As part of my project to bring back the MIDI Soundtrack pages of individual MIDI's per game, I was thinking down the road, I could also put some recordings of the songs from my Original MT-32, RWI MT-32, CM-64 (CM-32L), and MUNT (via Muki.io). I think that would be fun!
Yeah, not many people have your resources, so that would be great!

Thanks,

Lucas

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Re: SC-8850 information

Post by andrew603 » Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:22 am

jaffa225man wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:49 pm
Yeah, not many people have your resources, so that would be great!
Thanks!

By the way, I just posted my Doom & Doom 2 SC-8850 remixes on the main site. A zip of the MIDI files is also included. I used a lot of SysEx for the 8850's MFX and other effects. Check it out!

http://www.midimusicadventures.com/2017 ... revisited/

If you want some more Sysex for the SC-8850, I saved several "presets" for my SC-8850. Not a whole lot, but they might be of interest if you want to play around. Let me know!

Cheers!
~Andrew

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Re: SC-8850 information

Post by jaffa225man » Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:02 am

andrew603 wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:22 am
By the way, I just posted my Doom & Doom 2 SC-8850 remixes on the main site. A zip of the MIDI files is also included. I used a lot of SysEx for the 8850's MFX and other effects. Check it out!

http://www.midimusicadventures.com/2017 ... revisited/
Wow, they sound better than any doom mixes I've heard so far! And I've heard a fair few on youtube of late. Though, I never really got into doom or any game of its genre. Your EFX edits (electric guitars and more) are quite a bit better than what I've heard the SC-8850 do so far! You did a great job!

In regards to using .WRK format for the 30 channel file, I have a midi file that, probably through use of sysex (I haven't looked into it yet), plays parts A and B (only four B channels though). It's called gloria88.mid; I got it from here: https://web.archive.org/web/20160210170 ... 8%20stuff/. It even plays all those channels with a standard midi cable (not needing the the virtual midi through USB). I don't know how unusual it is, but it's interesting to me and it's the only one I've found that does that.
If you want some more Sysex for the SC-8850, I saved several "presets" for my SC-8850. Not a whole lot, but they might be of interest if you want to play around. Let me know!
Of course I'll take you up on that! It sounds like fun, although it will be quite a while before I start composing anything; I want to finish the rosegarden map(s) first, but I've barely started it and I haven't touched it for a while.

Thanks for everything!

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Re: SC-8850 information

Post by andrew603 » Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:19 pm

jaffa225man wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:02 am
Wow, they sound better than any doom mixes I've heard so far! And I've heard a fair few on youtube of late. Though, I never really got into doom or any game of its genre. Your EFX edits (electric guitars and more) are quite a bit better than what I've heard the SC-8850 do so far! You did a great job!
Thanks, glad you like them! I take a lot of pride in my various Guitar Effect presets that I've made over the years... Might have something to do with fighting some of that old "midi guitars suck" attitude there always seemed to be back in the day.
jaffa225man wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:02 am
In regards to using .WRK format for the 30 channel file, I have a midi file that, probably through use of sysex (I haven't looked into it yet), plays parts A and B (only four B channels though). It's called gloria88.mid; I got it from here: https://web.archive.org/web/20160210170 ... 8%20stuff/. It even plays all those channels with a standard midi cable (not needing the the virtual midi through USB). I don't know how unusual it is, but it's interesting to me and it's the only one I've found that does that.
That's really funny that you got an old link of Andre Louis, and Arfy's. They both happen to be good friends of mine! Arfy regularly co-hosted my show with me and Andre sometimes appeared, he owns TBRN. There's a few interesting midi's like that floating around. I'll have to ask Arfy if he has any other ones.
jaffa225man wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:02 am
Of course I'll take you up on that! It sounds like fun, although it will be quite a while before I start composing anything; I want to finish the rosegarden map(s) first, but I've barely started it and I haven't touched it for a while.
I have attached a ZIP with a bunch of random Sysex. Unfortunately, I am not 100% sure how they were really configured as far as what channels ran the MFX, so you'll have to just look at the screen or play some test notes to each channel to tell. Or, just enable the MFX on a channel of your choosing with SHIFT+EFFECTS button combo.
Andrew_SC-8850_RandomSysexFiles.zip
(19.76 KiB) Downloaded 600 times
Here are a couple links to the results of my settings for "My Killer Instinct 8850 Guitar Setting 2.syx" and "My Killer Instinct 8850 Guitar Setting 3.syx"
Killer Instinct Theme cover/remix I did ages ago
Killer Instinct Character Select Theme cover/remix
Those were both written from scratch by-ear.

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Re: SC-8850 information

Post by jaffa225man » Sun Feb 05, 2017 6:50 pm

andrew603 wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:19 pm
Thanks, glad you like them! I take a lot of pride in my various Guitar Effect presets that I've made over the years... Might have something to do with fighting some of that old "midi guitars suck" attitude there always seemed to be back in the day.
I had a bit of that impression to until I heard yours. Not that midi electric guitars have to sound bad, but it seemed to me that Roland chose not to make them too good, in order to continue selling their non-midi guitar effects units and their dedicated guitar midi synthesizers.

That's really funny that you got an old link of Andre Louis, and Arfy's. They both happen to be good friends of mine! Arfy regularly co-hosted my show with me and Andre sometimes appeared, he owns TBRN. There's a few interesting midi's like that floating around. I'll have to ask Arfy if he has any other ones.
That is a neat coincidence. It shows that midi synthesis appreciation is something best shared. I think it was through google searches for any SC-8850 midi files available, that I found mention of it. Of course, by then (a year or so ago), it was no longer available and archive.org came to my rescue as usual. Andre hosted there, the SC-8850 CDROM's demo files I just also got from you. I'd just been playing them (with a custom capital-tone-fallback device I built) on my SC-33 so I didn't even realize gloria88.mid had those extra channels, until my recent purchase of the SC-8850.

I have attached a ZIP with a bunch of random Sysex. Unfortunately, I am not 100% sure how they were really configured as far as what channels ran the MFX, so you'll have to just look at the screen or play some test notes to each channel to tell. Or, just enable the MFX on a channel of your choosing with SHIFT+EFFECTS button combo.
Sure, that's perfect! It's nice that you're slowly giving me a primer to many of the useful button shortcuts on the SC-8850. This one seems useful, as will be your mention of sending edited parameters with DEC+INC. I should probably also take the time to say that I've just tested the Advanced Editor 4.0 you included in the 7-zip archive of the CDROM. It's pretty exacting for total use of the SC-8850. Although ISO format is nice, it's definitely not important now, since your 7-zip archive includes it all at a much more economical size.

Here are a couple links to the results of my settings for "My Killer Instinct 8850 Guitar Setting 2.syx" and "My Killer Instinct 8850 Guitar Setting 3.syx"
Killer Instinct Theme cover/remix I did ages ago
Killer Instinct Character Select Theme cover/remix
Those were both written from scratch by-ear.
They sound great too! I think they're better electric guitar than your doom remixes (very realistic to my ears)! I can only hope my future plans in writing-by-ear will yield such quality compositions.

Thanks again,
Lucas

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Re: SC-8850 information

Post by andrew603 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:10 pm

jaffa225man wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2017 6:50 pm
I had a bit of that impression to until I heard yours. Not that midi electric guitars have to sound bad, but it seemed to me that Roland chose not to make them too good, in order to continue selling their non-midi guitar effects units and their dedicated guitar midi synthesizers.
That's an interesting point, I never thought of that. Could be.
jaffa225man wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2017 6:50 pm
That is a neat coincidence. It shows that midi synthesis appreciation is something best shared. I think it was through google searches for any SC-8850 midi files available, that I found mention of it. Of course, by then (a year or so ago), it was no longer available and archive.org came to my rescue as usual. Andre hosted there, the SC-8850 CDROM's demo files I just also got from you. I'd just been playing them (with a custom capital-tone-fallback device I built) on my SC-33 so I didn't even realize gloria88.mid had those extra channels, until my recent purchase of the SC-8850.
There are a bunch of really amazing guitar MFX midi's in those Roland demos, most of them are in the 'phrases' folder and are actually SC-88Pro compatible.

jaffa225man wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2017 6:50 pm
Sure, that's perfect! It's nice that you're slowly giving me a primer to many of the useful button shortcuts on the SC-8850. This one seems useful, as will be your mention of sending edited parameters with DEC+INC. I should probably also take the time to say that I've just tested the Advanced Editor 4.0 you included in the 7-zip archive of the CDROM. It's pretty exacting for total use of the SC-8850. Although ISO format is nice, it's definitely not important now, since your 7-zip archive includes it all at a much more economical size.
I'm glad to hear it worked for you, you got the GSAE working? I was never able to get it to run on my current system (Windows 10).

Here are some other SC-8850 recordings I'd done over the years showcasing some guitar effects on the SC-8850. I don't have standard MIDI files of them as most of them were actually done in FL Studio. Hopefully I can remember down the road to try and make a new archive of some of my "presets" for those songs. The following three links go to Newgrounds.com where I had posted those songs.

Castlevania 2 - Mansions Cover/Remix - Lot's of use of the control of the auto-wah effect.
Random Jam - an original little tune of mine one day.
Double Dragon Loading Screen Music based on the Arcade version of the game.

Also here are a couple recordings with some excellent use of MFX "A Rose in the Gunsight", and another called "Animal".

If you've never come across "A Rose in the Gunsight" you are in for a real treat, it's a ~15 minute long masterwork!

7-Zip of the previous two song's MIDI files attached:
sc-8850-animal-aritgs.7z
(70.75 KiB) Downloaded 594 times
~Andrew

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Re: SC-8850 information

Post by jaffa225man » Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:39 pm

andrew603 wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:10 pm
There are a bunch of really amazing guitar MFX midi's in those Roland demos, most of them are in the 'phrases' folder and are actually SC-88Pro compatible.
I've had that folder around for quite a while, but I hadn't listened to them yet, because I didn't realize it came on the SC-8850 CDROM. I'll have to try them out.

andrew603 wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:10 pm
I'm glad to hear it worked for you, you got the GSAE working? I was never able to get it to run on my current system (Windows 10).
Yes, it works under my Debian (amd64 architecture) GNU/Linux. I had previously tweaked wine to run in 32-bit mode, since the majority of windows programs I care to run are older, with these two lines in my ~/.bashrc:

Code: Select all

export WINEPREFIX=~/.wine32
export WINEARCH=win32
With that, the installer ran fine:

Code: Select all

wine $PATH_TO_GSAE_FOLDER/Setup.exe
And so does the program:

Code: Select all

wine ~/.wine32/drive_c/Program\ Files/JDS/GS\ Advanced\ Editor\ 4.0/GSAE4.exe
Wine easily maps to my Roland USB MIDI adapters (including the SC-8850's USB virtual & physical ports) from the (ALSA) Linux drivers for all windows programs I've tried.

andrew603 wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:10 pm
Here are some other SC-8850 recordings I'd done over the years showcasing some guitar effects on the SC-8850. I don't have standard MIDI files of them as most of them were actually done in FL Studio. Hopefully I can remember down the road to try and make a new archive of some of my "presets" for those songs. The following three links go to Newgrounds.com where I had posted those songs.

Castlevania 2 - Mansions Cover/Remix - Lot's of use of the control of the auto-wah effect.
Random Jam - an original little tune of mine one day.
Double Dragon Loading Screen Music based on the Arcade version of the game.
Thanks, those are great examples too!

andrew603 wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:10 pm
Also here are a couple recordings with some excellent use of MFX "A Rose in the Gunsight", and another called "Animal".

If you've never come across "A Rose in the Gunsight" you are in for a real treat, it's a ~15 minute long masterwork!

7-Zip of the previous two song's MIDI files attached: sc-8850-animal-aritgs.7z
I listened to the "A Rose in the Gunsight" MP3 first, and my thoughts went from, "Is that fully MIDI", to "Well, maybe the SC-880 is more realistic than the SC-8850". When I finally realized you'd also linked the MIDI file, and had listened to it... Wow! I can truthfully say the SC-8850 sounds at least equally as real. Thanks for making me aware of those! Now I know almost anything is possible with the SC-8850 (and similar synthesizers), if enough care is spent tweaking MFX. Previous to this, I'd thought a Sound Canvas was just an extremely controllable MIDI (GS) device, but with these capabilities, I think the SC-8850 is pretty comparable to what is considered a true synthesizer.

Thanks,
Lucas

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Re: SC-8850 information

Post by jaffa225man » Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:49 am

I've been working on a Rosegarden studio device file for the Roland SC-8850, and I'm finally done (unless I notice any inconsistencies or typos I haven't already corrected). I just submitted it to rosegarden's devel mailing list for consideration, but since it may take a while to end up in rosegarden's library, I chose to post it here too so others can try it if they use Rosegarden.

The most useful for music creation is the studio device file with the separate CM-64 map, the rest of the maps being merged into one SC-8850 device. Both devices can be applied to the same midi port/device anyway. That way, the different MSB/LSB method for the CM-64 variations is easier to navigate in Rosegarden's GUI.

The "single-device" file is there just because I tried it (merging all maps), but due to the CM-64 map's MSB/LSB difference, it's awkward to browse when creating music (certain CM-64 variations are grouped under capital tones they aren't related to).

The easiest to edit is the one including "all-separate-devices". Also, the compatible maps may be imported into other similar devices' studio files (although I'm not sure Roland kept the variation names exactly the same for each incarnation in this line of sound modules).

I believe this is mostly compatible with the SC-8820 too, but the documentation seems to say there should be a difference in the number of tones between the 8820 and 8850. The difference isn't in the 8820 studio file, though, which only includes the 8820 map. (I used it as a base for the 8850 map, obsessively editing wherever I noticed differences in names, but I never had to add, remove, or change variation numbering).

Here it is:
Rosegarden-Roland-SC-8850.7z
(79.41 KiB) Downloaded 97 times
Noticed & corrected CM-64 LA map's "Flue 1" to "Flute 1":
Rosegarden-Roland-SC-8850-1.7z
(79.42 KiB) Downloaded 84 times
I finally added a few wanting features. They now include an additional duplicate SC-8850 map for the bank selected by the button on the front panel (only the SC-8850 map, but at least it's a superset of all but the CM-64 variations) allowing for greater GS sound module compatibility, all controllers defined (except aftertouch, which doesn't seem possible at the moment) and all drum set keymappings! I hope it's useful:
Rosegarden-Roland-SC-8850-2.7z
(177.93 KiB) Downloaded 1 time

Now that this is available to me, I'll be slightly more likely to create midi compositions, but still, I never learned how to play piano. ;)


Thanks,

Lucas
Last edited by jaffa225man on Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: SC-8850 information

Post by jaffa225man » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:41 pm

After mirroring archive.org's snapshot of queststudios.com, I noticed many goodies, one of which applies to Roland's ED devices. Enjoy Tom's hard work converting MT-32 soundtracks to MIDI format for Roland ED modules: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2uObE ... sp=sharing :)

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Re: SC-8850 information

Post by jaffa225man » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:47 am

andrew603 wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:22 am
By the way, I just posted my Doom & Doom 2 SC-8850 remixes on the main site. A zip of the MIDI files is also included. I used a lot of SysEx for the 8850's MFX and other effects. Check it out!

http://www.midimusicadventures.com/2017 ... revisited/
Sorry to bring this up so late, but do you remember the version of cakewalk express you used for your "Doom 2 – Countdown to Death" (D_COUNTD.wrk) file? I don't know the .wrk format enough to guess. I'm interested in exporting it to a type-1 midi file I can edit to be compatible with aplaymidi's multiple port method (without downloading sonar's latest trials).

Thanks,

Lucas

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